lith printing and gold toners

----- Original Message -----
From: Graham <cmm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <infrared@xxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 12:36 AM
Subject: IR list, lith printing and gold toners

> Good day all,
>
> My query is directed more so to Tim Rudman although I think it
> may have appeal to the IR list in general.
>
> I have your Lith printing book and think it is just wonderful,
> full of great information and ideas. In the section on toning
> you mention the use of Gold Toners and in the photo of sample
> supplies you have a bottle of what looks like Fotospeed Gold
> toner which is described as use it, rebottle it, and use it
> again later.
>
> I have looked around for Gold Toner and the only one I could easily
> find is Berg Protective Gold Toner; 2 parts to make 1 litre or working
> solution with no appreciable tray life and good for 8 8x10's. Very
> expensive and seemingly quite different from what was described in the
> book. Is the Berg toner similiar to Kodak GP-1 ? Is the Fotospeed
> probuct similar to the Nelson Gold Toner formula ?
>
> There is quite a difference in the forumulations between the two. What
> is the difference? Why would you use the GP-1 type formula instead of
> the Nelson Gold toner type if they both do the same thing or do they?
>
> I have found the subject a bit confusing but after a bit of research
> I am beginning to think that what I want is the Nelson Gold Toner or
> something similar.
>
> Anyone know of a source for Fotospeed products in Canada? I know of some
> US sources but I am getting tired of the extra cost and hassels of cross
> border shopping.
>
> cheers, Graham cmm@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Graham,
The gold toners I use almost exclusively are those from Fotospeed and from
Tetenal. For years gold toner in the UK 'was' Tetenal. There was no other
generally available without making your own - which is not an awful lot
cheaper given the fuss involved, and that Tetenal's product was (is) so
good. A few years ago Fotospeed joined the gold toner market too. They are
both very good products and in terms of method, result and capacity seem
pretty much interchangeable,
They are both I believe (I know as regards Tetenal) gold chloride /
Thiocyanate formulations. They are used at room temp straight from the
bottle. They are colourless and odourless - look like water. Simple to use -
put the print in, take it out when it looks right. wash it. Rebottle and use
again until gets too slow.
Tetenals capacity is about 60 10"x8" prints depending on how far they are
toned and on the paper used.
GP-1 is often said to be a protective toner without much colour shift, but
it can and does produce colours according to use and especially on which
paper the print is made. We have no Commercial GP-1 in the UK that I know of
and although it is also a gold chloride / thiocyanate formula, I don't know
the exact formulae used by Fotospeed and/or Tetenal as these are commercial
secrets. It's capacity would appear to be rather less.

Nelson's is different in several ways. Again we don't have a ready made
version here - I don't know about the US - perhaps you can tell me? It has
to be used at around 40 degrees for toning and in the UK at least needs to
be made up from scratch first. It has a different formulation and is said to
be used for brown tones, whereas F & T's products give blue tones on warm
papers - and especially so on lith prints which yield a beautiful clear
blue. It gives a range of pink, red and orange if used after sepia (sulphide
or thiocarbamide) It is also possible to get yellows and even metallic
old - but that's perhaps a different story.

I don't know about Fotospeed in Canada. I have e-mailed John Herlinger who
owns Fotospeed and will pass on details if he can help. You could try his e
mail which is in the back of the book.

Thank you for the nice comments about the book, I'm glad you are enjoying
it. It's certainly a lovely process and creatively liberating.

Tim